Javed offered a cigarette to Khalida Ali. They were sitting in her hotel room in Lahore. "No thanks, I don't smoke."

"Do you mind if I do?" he replied.

"No. Go right ahead."

His big fingers closed on a cigarette and brought it to his lips. He tossed the package on the table between them and felt for his box of matches. As he opened the box, selected a match, and struck it, he wondered what would come of this interview. She had asked to meet with him before the public seminar being held in an hour. But what did she want? Why had she invited him to come up to her hotel room before the seminar?

Javed inhaled and felt the smoke fill his lungs. He blew out the match, dropped it into the ash tray on the table, and took another drag on his cigarette, holding the smoke in his lungs for a moment, before exhaling. "What can I do for you?" he asked.

"I want to do a story on you," she replied. "The article I wrote after the attack on the seminar in Karachi has opened things up a bit. There's some sympathy among prominent Muslim intellectuals and businessmen. I thought a piece featuring you, a Muslim who supports human rights, might be acceptable to my editor and helpful."

Javed watched the cigarette smoke drift toward the ceiling. "I didn't know you wanted to help us," he said.

She flushed but quickly recovered her composure. "I want what's best for our country and for Islam," she responded. "I didn't like what I saw in Karachi, and I thought an article featuring you might help to support a more enlightened Muslim attitude in our country."

"It might also put me at greater risk," he responded, flicking ashes from his cigarette into the ashtray.

"You're already at risk. This might be a way to gain you a few more friends."

Javed took another drag on his cigarette and thought about that for a moment. It might be true. He was already publicly identified with human rights. He'd lost a few clients over that, however, in the last couple of days. He could use some good publicity.

"All right. But I want to review the article before you submit it for publication. After all, it's my neck."

"Fair enough."

Javed leaned forward and crushed his cigarette butt in the ashtray. "What do you want to know?"

She opened her shoulder bag, took out a notebook and a tape recorder, put the recorder on the table and pressed the record button. Then she leaned back in her chair again.

"Why did you get involved in human rights work?"

"When I was about thirteen my father was arrested by the police and beaten so badly that he was crippled for the rest of his life. He'd won a contract for a construction job that somebody else had expected to get. The loser filed a complaint that had no basis in fact, but the bastard paid the police to pick up my father and teach him a lesson."

"So you took up human rights work to see justice done."

"What happened to my father made me think about becoming a lawyer. I wanted to help protect the rights of others. For years I had to help my mother lift my father out of his wheelchair and bathe him. Later, when I was in law school and felt like quitting, that memory kept me going."

"Where did you study law?"

"At the University of Pakistan. That's where I first heard of international human rights. I read a book written by Muhammed Zafrullah Khan. He was Pakistan's Ambassador to the United Nations in 1948 when the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was written and debated. A lot of our citizens don't know that. He convinced the government to support the Declaration, so Pakistan voted for it in the UN General Assembly."

"Did other Muslim countries vote against it?"

"No. There were no negative votes in the General Assembly session that approved the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on December 19th, 1948. Saudi Arabia, Yugoslavia and six other countries abstained, and two countries were absent. But no country voted against the Declaration."

"Why did Saudi Arabia abstain?"

"Because the Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't explicitly say that human rights come from God, which is what Muslims believe."

"Why then was Muhammed Zufrullah Khan successful in persuading the Pakistani government to support the Universal Declaration?"

"He convinced the government that human rights are supported in the Qur'an. A sura in the Qur'an clearly states that there is to be no coercion in religion. Moreover, human rights are implied in the obligations that we owe to God. By caring for God's creation and respecting the reflection of God in each created person, we are affirming fundamental human rights."

"Do Muslims have the same view of human rights as non-Muslim Europeans and Americans?"

"There is some agreement, but there is also a basic difference. Many Westerners see human rights as the natural rights of individuals. Muslims see human rights as the gift of God to the human community. Muslims believe that individuals do have rights, but these rights are not rooted in their individual nature. Rather, human rights are derived from the responsibilities that the human community has to God."

"Can you give an example of these different views?"

"Of course. Western society claims that women and men have equal rights, as individuals. Muslims, on the other hand, believe that men and women each have human rights that guard their dignity, but these rights are different because men and women are different and play different roles in the family and in the community."

"Does that mean in Islam that men and women do not have equal rights?"

"Men and women are equal before Allah, but their rights in society are different."

"So, you support human rights as a Muslim."

"Absolutely."

"And when Islam's notion of human rights differs with the Western concept, you continue to support the Islamic view."

"Of course. I am a Muslim."

"Do Western and Islamic concepts of human rights frequently differ?"

"They are always different in terms of acknowledging the authority behind human rights. In Islam that authority is Allah. In the West, the authority behind human rights is the agreement of those who have made the laws. In the case of human rights, that authority is the United Nations General Assembly and the governments that have ratified the human rights covenants. In practice, however, both Western and Islamic views often support the same rights."

"Can you give a specific example?"

"Whether we are Muslim or not, we each have the right to due process of law and the right not to be tortured, even if we are arrested and charged with committing a crime. Both Muslims and non-Muslims affirm these rights. We also have the right to practice our religious faith in peace."

"You mean that Islam affirms the right to freedom of religion or belief."

"Yes."

"The Universal Declaration of Human Rights states in Article 18 that a person has the right to change his religion. Do Muslims agree?"

"If there's to be no coercion in religion, then the choice of a religion is a personal decision. That doesn't mean, of course, that the government is obligated to allow proselytizing. Proselytizing that tries to coerce persons into changing their religion isn't right. But if God speaks to a believer and calls him to make a change in the way he responds, who are we to judge?"

"Nevertheless, many Muslims seem to believe that Muslim society should prohibit Muslims from giving up their faith in order to become Christian or Baha'i or any other faith. How do you explain this?"

"They believe that there cannot be a right to reject the truth. As Islam is true, no Muslim can have the right to reject Islam."

"But you disagree?"

"The Qur'an says there is to be no coercion in religion. That is because religion is a matter of responding to Allah. To force someone to worship God in a particular way is to make a mockery of religion. We see in the story in Genesis that Allah made man and woman free to make choices, and the Bible also tells us that human beings were made in the image of Allah. That doesn't mean we physically look like Allah. It means that because Allah is free and the source of all freedom, we also are created to be free. Religion must be a free response to the freedom of Allah or it is not religion."

"Therefore, you support international human rights law that gives each person the right to choose or to change his religion."

"I believe this isn't simply international human rights law. I believe it is also the teaching of Islam. Allah calls everyone to respond as a Muslim, but Allah has created each of us free to respond in the way that we recognize the call of God. Not everyone recognizes the call to respond to God as a call to be a Muslim, but everyone must be allowed to respond to God as he or she understands God's will. It is my prayer, however, that everyone will some day come to see that the final truth of Allah's revelation is in the Qur'an and, thus, will embrace Islam."

"Does that mean you see Christianity as less true than Islam?"

"Christian faith is faith in God. Jesus was a great prophet who submitted his very life to the will of God. But Allah's revelation is not complete in the Bible. It is complete in the Qur'an through the revelation to the Prophet, Peace Be Upon Him. It's like traveling to Mecca. As long as you are headed in the right direction, you are following the true way. But only when you complete the journey will you truly arrive. Christianity is true, but Islam is the fulfillment of the truth of all religion."

Khalida Ali reached out and pushed the stop button on the tape recorder. "Thank you very much, Mr. Javed. I think it will make an excellent story."

"Some of the points I made were quite subtle, Ms. Ali. That's why I want to review your essay before you submit it to your editor. I want to be sure that you understood the distinctions I've just made."

Ms. Ali was standing now. "I'm quite sure I did, so I have no hesitancy about showing you the article before it is submitted. Besides, I have the tape to back up the quotes I use. I won't misrepresent you."

Javed was surprised that she held out her hand, but not surprised by how soft and gentle it felt in his large palm. "I'll see you in a few minutes at the seminar," he said. Then he turned and left the room. It was convenient that Ms. Ali was staying in the hotel where the seminar was being held, he thought, as he got into the elevator and pushed the button for the ground floor. Downstairs he found that security was tight. They had raised some money from the Ahmadis to help pay bribes to the police. He didn't think there would be any reoccurrence of the attack in Karachi. But he wanted to be sure.